Stepping outside my comfort zone.. I’ve done it once, can I do it again?

I’ve realised that across my time of playing, the main reason I’ve left guilds is because of raiding. The first guild I joined and left, was in Cata after hitting max level and finally understanding that the guild I was with, while raiding, wasn’t doing it at the level that I knew was out there. So there was a guild split between those who wanted more and those who didn’t. It was messy and I lost people I thought were friends. Setting up a new guild on a small server was horribly hard and the new guild despite having all the best intentions just couldn’t pull it together. I was really lucky at the time because one of our tanks was in our runs on an alt, and his main was a healer in a much more progressed guild and they had an opening so he suggested I come heal in his guild and it was awesome finally killing bosses and at a much higher level than I had ever dreamed I’d be doing.

Stepping away from a guild which held the only people I knew in WoW to a whole different faction where no one I knew could even play with me, as no one had horde alts, was a massive step out of my comfort zone. But it was incredibly rewarding. Right up until the guild culture changed and eventually the thrill of killing the highest level of  bosses stopped outweighing how little I enjoyed sitting in vent with people whose attitudes I really couldn’t stand.

So I found Deadline, through Cinder, and it turned out to be a guild with people I really enjoy hanging around with. But the reality is, the interest in how much mythics are chased has always fluctuated wildly between the core raiders. Each expansion has pretty much started out with a high level of enthusiasm and then the same people tend to taper off through the expansion and then come back with renewed interest and talk of wanting to push raiding again and each time I’ve stayed and hoped it would get better and that the interest level would remain this time.

We’ve had some changes in the guild lately, people stopped playing completely, others only logging on for raids and the GM/RL has just taken a 2 week break to see if they come back  with a renewed desire to  actually keep playing. In their absence, there’s been a lot of talk about guild identity and it’s pretty clear there’s a bit of a issue with different expectations. Some members want to push harder, even if this means changing raid nights (Sundays are so damn annoying as people just don’t turn up) or adding an additional day, other’s don’t want to change or even would be happy if an even more relaxed pace was taken. Faced with such structural issues it’s a really difficult choice. If changes are pushed through then some long-time guild members get excluded and essentially the whole guild changes so in this case would it even be the Deadline I’m being nostalgic about?  And in this case, how long until people are sorted through into a tight-knit team again.  I think in this case finding like-minded people is better than browbeating people into accepting a new version than what they signed up for.

But taking that step is so scary; what if I find a guild that looks great on the outside but inside it’s terrible. Or one that despite appearances faces exactly the same roster issues or lack of cohesion. What if they just don’t like me or me them? What I’m if not as good as I think. Or what  if the raiders left in Deadline do end up making the changes the guild needs and starts raiding at the higher level I want to see and I’m finally not there after waiting for so long. And what if leaving hurts the raid team? I don’t think it would but  3 guildies have all independently said another departure of a leadership/officer so soon after 2 officers taking a break could weaken it to the point where it finally falls. While I don’t think that would happen, I don’t want to think I would be responsible to adding to further hardship, especially as a lot of our issues stem from people/roster issues as it is. Maybe its selfish to want to leave, rather than continuing to build on what we have.

I’m so damn terrible at decisions. Often they end up getting made solely because I do wait for so long things end up happening, not always the choice I would have wanted either.

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8 thoughts on “Stepping outside my comfort zone.. I’ve done it once, can I do it again?

  1. I think WoW is changing. The churn with people coming and going years ago was not so noticeable with higher subs, and fewer things to do. I know we are faced with about half the raid team sort of like yourself, wanting to push for harder, having the time to run Mythic +16 over and over, wanting to push harder, down more bosses on heroic, bench any that can’t keep up. And then there are the rest, like my wife, working 50+ hours a week for near a year, having a hard time learning mechanics, trying to keep everyone healed, staying out of stuff. But they are burning through fights so fast she does not have a chance to work it all out. And when her numbers are just a bit low, and some are calling for the two low DPS to get benched? Well then you don’t need that extra healer. So you have 3 people not wanted. And that carries to other activities. People nut wanting to bother grouping because they don’t feel like they are worth it. But the other side is if you go slower, you may lose the top raiders.

    It’s a fine line balancing progression raiding, and having friends you can talk to and do fun things with. I almost suspect they will announce Mythic raids will be 15-20 next expansion. Just a hunch. If I had to make a guess, I think your GM may be getting burned out. It’s enough running a guild anymore, adding Raid Lead on top of it? No thank you. I can barely hold the guild together some days, and I benched myself long before I even hit 110. I saw what it took to play my class, and I don’t have what it takes.

    I’m sorry. I’m rambling. I don’t have some magical advice I can give. Just that through all the years, watching raid teams come and go, excel, only to crash and burn to drama, groups form with split goals, people being elitist. I’ve seen quite a bit. But the one thing that survives, are those that just want to play with friends. People that you can joke with when you make that dumb mistake, those that chime in when you get some obscure achievement. People you may never meet, but you feel like you have known for years. That’s the one thing that survives even loot drama.

    Sorry I talked your ear off.

    • You’re more than welcome to talk to my ear off. Oh god mythic 15 raids would be the dream. 20 is so freaking hard at times to recruit.
      The dream would be to find the friends that you talk about and be able to push high end raiding with exactly the same people all the the time but unless you all perform at the same standard with the same expectations taking a friends guild and turning it mythic can result on stepped toes and hurt feelings if the talk has to be had that not everyone is at the same ability.
      I have great friends in Deadline and across the whole WoW world (yay for bnet helping to connect us all ) but I think it’s ok to have different expectations among us for us.

  2. Marathal is right about your guild leader. It sounds like they’re losing focus and possibly getting bogged down in trying to please everyone, all of the time. Which of course can never happen and leads to confusion and different people pulling in different directions.

    I’ve done it myself, a few times, to a lesser degree. When I’ve had a guild member or two who have been a core member of the guild, or a long term member, who decides they want something different and, rather than moving on to find that something different, they try to change the guild they’re already in. And a few times I’ve *nearly* just been taken along for the ride.

    Your guild leader is right to take a step back (although I’m not sure taking two weeks away, unless they’re actually physically away anyway, is the right move).

    Generally you need to work out if the guild itself, and the majority of the members, are happy with how it has always been – how it was when you joined, and when they joined. It is what people know best and it is what the guild is known for. If that is the case, then those who are unhappy with that should move on and stop disrupting the guild.

    If on the other hand it turns out that the majority of the guild members and raiders WANT to change the way the guild has always been, then you need to approach the guild leader and ask if it’s possible, on a trial basis, to try something different.

    At the end of the day it is down to the guild leader to say which direction the guild goes in, and what sort of guild it is. If they no longer want to lead it, they should pass leadership to someone else who is willing to do whatever is best for the majority of the guild members.

    We had a few guild members who wanted to do mythic raiding. We have more than enough numbers to do it (which in itself caused problems) but we’ve never advertised ourselves as anything other than casual/social raiding at the Normal/Heroic level.

    We discussed it for some time, we were between raids – still running heroic and waiting for the next to open up, so we had a spare week or two, so we did a one off run just to see how we liked it.

    We’re not going to rule out doing them again – they’re very obtainable for us, but it restricts the numbers who can go and, quite frankly, it was just the same boss we’d done many times before, on different difficulty levels, and we just didn’t really see the appeal.

    But then, we don’t really raid for anything other than the fun of it :p

    • Burnt out or RL events taking more of a focus, I think you and Mara could be right or it’s a case of not enjoying the changes the guild is heading in.
      Part of the difficulty is back when I joined in 2014, it was a mythic pushing raiding group. I came from a very dedicated raiding guild and at that time Deadline was only 2 bosses behind. So that’s part of the reason I’ve waited so long – we were doing that and each new raid there’s always discussion that we will be returning to mythic raiding and we do, just not at the level we were. I’m very much to blame for not realising that this the way it is, not just an outlier. Even when varying members talk also about wanting to return to that level of raiding, I’ve had plenty of experience with seeing it not pan out. And we do advertise ourselves as wanting to push mythics. I think maybe we’re all over the shop in different expectations.
      We started having the discussion over identity and a lot of changes were proposed but all these are in the GM’s absence if he comes back who knows what would happen. And yeah, the general consensus is that 2 weeks so close to the start of a new tier, especially as we literally started m progression is not a great idea.
      Your point about the ones that aren’t happy should leave and not disrupt is great and one I’ve taken to heart, it’s helped me finally be make the decision but it’s also hard because it if was a clear cut no we’re not doing, it wouldn’t be so tricky because it would be very clear what the expectation moving forward are. We even did a guild forum poll and out of the 5 responses (from a team of 19..) 4 were they want to be pushing mythics. I think it probably really comes down to what extent. And pretty sure my expectation of what level should be being reached for is a bit higher.

  3. It is tough. I don’t make decisions well or until I have to.
    Reading over your post, I don’t see you thinking of an option for you (yes you) to take over the leadership of the raid team! Why not?
    While I don’t Mythically Raid, I don’t understand why if you have a solid core of 17 that you can not pug in the missing three; insist on Voice and accept that they might only stay for one fight. A shift in culture, I know, but it could be a solution … maybe?
    My experience is not wide nor deep but I have seen in flex raids that if our team is successful and “chill”, people start wanting to battle tag up and come again; though, I think Mythics might be realm only …
    Good luck and keep posting, I’m following your story with a hopeful heart.

    • No, taking over RL reins is not an option for a number of reasons. The most glaring for me is I’m a healer and I don’t have the personal skill to raid lead a team (esp in mythic content) while healing. As healing lead, I make the calls for cooldowns, or for externals on the tanks etc, but that’s easy as I’m focusing on them anyway because I know the raid might be about to take a big hit or it’s right there in front of me that we’re about to die and we need a CD now, because I’m watching my healing frames so I can see the entire raid’s health. But having to watch everything else – make sure dps don’t miss their interrupts and assigning on the fly if they have, checking that the dps is hitting the correct add and not off in narnia still tunneling the boss, watching boss health/timers for dps abilities as well as knowing what I need from healers.. I don’t have that skill. Maybe some do but I’ve never seen a decent healer be a raid leader. Our priority and focus are on healing matters, not dps/tank roles.
      Mythic are generally realm only until the next raid is out. So M EN is cross realm but M NH is not.
      Pugging.. can be done but as mythic is a step up it can be hard to find experienced people that aren’t just going to make the run harder. And mythic locks are raid leader specific. If someone kills a boss in M they can’t step back into a raid with a different raid leader until reset. That narrows the pool down a bit as you can’t grab mythic raiders from guilds that might have been tempted to pug in on an off night like you can with heroic or norm.

  4. Hey z, I’ve been in a similar situation to yours after cinders old guild died during WoD, eventually ending up in a decently high up guild on the server. While the progression was great and I always felt like I was accomplishing more, I realized finding likeminded people that had the same emphasis on the social aspect of the guild to raid with at that high level of progression was difficult. Like you said in your post, sitting in vent listening to people with bad attitudes really destroys the experience. My guild mates didn’t feel like friends, just people I used to obtain loot and I hated that part of it. It became extremely draining and led me to quitting the game because I wasn’t having fun. When I joined deadline also through cinder, it was legitimately the best time I’ve ever had playing wow and actually made me happier irl. I liked and enjoyed hanging out with every single person in the guild. It’ll be hard to find a guild with people that you actually enjoy playing with that can also perform at that level but I wish you the very best of luck with whatever you decide to do. I’d love to be able to raid with you guys but I just don’t have the time because of my career. Plus it sounds pretty messy right now with there being a split between guildies and all, but I hope you guys can pull through it and work something out.

    Apologies for the spelling and grammatical errors, writing this up on my phone.
    P.S.
    Your blog is actually really interesting to read even though I don’t play anymore.

    • Hello Tame 🙂 I didn’t realize you knew my blog’s around, I’m glad you find it interesting though I feel all I do is sook about raiding atm.
      I always wondered how you ended up with us.. I swear we should all play a game of six degrees of separation about Cinder 🙂

      Yeah, probably why I’m having a lot of trouble letting go is I know that feeling of how great killing bosses (quickly and at a high level) with people you don’t really like that much outside of a raid setting and I know the feeling of loving logging on just to spend time with your guildies just because they are awesome.. I just want some damn way to make number 1 and 2 happen. And it’s not like number 1 isn’t happening with Deadline, it is just not how’d I like. Oh god I hope I’m not portraying it as worse as it is, there’s a difference in feeling but not drama or people in their own corners.
      Maybe when your work settles down a little you play again a bit 🙂 What have you been up to lately?

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